Another ADS-B/Panel Question

[Owenrg]

I'm a little late to the game here, but I've been poking around to get my husky (180hp A1-B) set up for the 2020 deadline. I use to deal huskys back in 2011 and have flow them with the 696 and the 796 panel. With and without engine monitors, basic 6 pack, basic VFR and even a G600 IFR with GTN760's.

I'm a firm believer of keeping it simple (and light) since this is a back country airplane after all. I currently have a standard 6 pack with digital tac, oil temp/pressure, Garmin transponder and and OLD Garmin GPS (a 155 I think it is).

I liked the Garmin 696 way more than the 796. I thought the 796 was slow and hard to use in anything but perfectly smooth air. The 696 I could navigate way faster with the multiple soft keys/knob. However, now that iPads are everywhere and the apps are so good, should I panel mount one of those?

My issues are:

1. If I get rid of the Garmin 155, I'd need a new radio solution. iComm has some simple cheap ones, or get an all in 1 solution from another manufacturer if I do the whole panel now.
2. Stuff ain't cheap! If I want to be ADS-B compliant, the GDL-82 would do it for me, but upgrading the panel would be really nice at the same time.
3. I've always used and liked Garmin, but I know there are cheaper solutions out there too. Avidyne, Dynon... I know I'm missing a couple.
4. What if I install the GDL-82 now, and end up wanting to go with another manufacturer for the panel upgrade? Is that going to be a waste of money now?

My questions are:

1. What solution have you used to become ADS-B compliant? What "level" of compliance do you have? (bare minimum? ADS-B in?) I would like to have traffic. I fly in busy airspace under class B.
2. Suggestions on panel mounting an iPad vs using TSO'd avionics? I've flown an IFR husky in IFR conditions and don't need to do that again. This is a day VFR airplane for me. A stand by AI would be nice, but that's about it in terms of "IFR" style equipment.
3. Suggestions on panel upgrades? Pretty much looking for any words of wisdom from guys that have upgraded their panel. Did you use an all in one solution? Or mix and match? Keep it simple and worry about the upgrade later?

I realize these questions may have been answered throughout other threads. Trying to track down all the answers I've been looking for hasn't been easy. Thanks for any input/suggestions you may have!

Thanks again from a long time husky flyer, first time owner.

 

[wbatz1]

Consider Garmin 335 transponder with gps source. $2995, you can buy from avionics shop, install the gps antenna up top, change out the bottom coax cable, and take plane to avionics shop to program and certify the installation.
Add $199 for “scout” to get ads-b in with weather to your iPad. <$3500 total, with your labor.......and you can sell your Garmin 327 transponder.

 

[tbienz]

Two years is an eternity in the life cycle of electronic advancement/development. I'd sit tight. In my case, I'll probably not upgrade the Husky until after 2020 when it really does come to pass (if it does). I almost always stay out of the ADS-B required airspace anyway. My other traveling plane which flies higher will just have the 330 upgraded to a 330ES...easy and fast.
I guess if you are under a Class B area (sorry about that by the way) you'll need to have something. A Stratus for weather and traffic displaying on a mini iPad along with a simple, compliant UAT transponder would be a cheap and easy way to comply.

 

[jimhusky]

I have GTX 330, which in my area gives me “traffic in” from Beale AFB above 1,500 feet. Today, it showed traffic on a collision course descending from 500 feet above me to my altitude coming in at my 2 o’clock. I started descending and looking and finally spotted the Barron. He had stopped descending at the altitude I had departed and was turning, so I guess the tower at KMHR or his TCAS was giving him a warning too. When you upgrade a GTX 330 to ES, you will not get ADS-B traffic in. If you live in a congested area, I think “traffic in” is critical to safe flight. I am upgrading to a GTX 345 and trading in my GTX 330.

Jim

 

[tbienz]

Yes, but the Stratus displaying on a mini IPad will give you traffic and it’s a whole lot cheaper than a new ADS-B transponder.
The 330ES solution I suggested is just a quick way to “comply” with the mandate. The plane in which I did that has active traffic which usually works quite a bit better than ADS-B traffic.

 

[jimhusky]

Yes, but the Stratus displaying on a mini IPad will give you traffic and it’s a whole lot cheaper than a new ADS-B transponder.
The 330ES solution I suggested is just a quick way to “comply” with the mandate. The plane in which I did that has active traffic which usually works quite a bit better than ADS-B traffic.

Thomas

I am not familiar with “active traffic...better than ADS-B traffic.” I am assuming my G600 will go from only displaying traffic in AFB areas to showing it almost everywhere when the ADS-B mandate is reached. Do you think the ADS-B traffic will be less effective than the 330 traffic I am getting now?

Jim

 

[tbienz]

I’m not sure what 330 traffic you are getting now...is it TIS? If so, that’s on the way out and will probably not be relevant soon anyway as ADS-B becomes more common. As far as I know (and I could easily be wrong), the GTX330ES will provide ADS-B out but will not get ADS-B in. You would need to go to the GTX345 to get that. If you had an ADS-B IN capable system, you would currently be seeing traffic in all locations at higher altitude or down low in urban areas, not only in a TIS area by the AFB. The Traffic Information System (which I think you now have) was the early iteration of what morphed into ADS-B, but it is a completely different system and is being retired.
The “Active Traffic” I was referring to is in my other plane that I use for work. It is a true TCAD system that actively sends out interrogation signals to any transponder equipped aircraft in the area and paints their position and distance along with climb/descent rate and verbally alarms if it senses proximity and trend to collision. In my Husky, traffic avoidance is still provided by the Mark IV Eyeball system.

 

[jimhusky]

I’m not sure what 330 traffic you are getting now...is it TIS? If so, that’s on the way out and will probably not be relevant soon anyway as ADS-B becomes more common. As far as I know (and I could easily be wrong), the GTX330ES will provide ADS-B out but will not get ADS-B in. You would need to go to the GTX345 to get that. If you had an ADS-B IN capable system, you would currently be seeing traffic in all locations at higher altitude or down low in urban areas, not only in a TIS area by the AFB. The Traffic Information System (which I think you now have) was the early iteration of what morphed into ADS-B, but it is a completely different system and is being retired.
The “Active Traffic” I was referring to is in my other plane that I use for work. It is a true TCAD system that actively sends out interrogation signals to any transponder equipped aircraft in the area and paints their position and distance along with climb/descent rate and verbally alarms if it senses proximity and trend to collision. In my Husky, traffic avoidance is still provided by the Mark IV Eyeball system.

Thomas,
Your understanding and mine are the same. TIS is going away and the 330ES does not provide ADS-B traffic in. I am really looking forward to seeing most of the traffic on my G600. My Mark IV Eyeball system is getting old, so I see a lot of traffic from TIS on the G600 before the Mark IV.
Jim

 

[jkalus]

Thomas,
Your understanding and mine are the same. TIS is going away and the 330ES does not provide ADS-B traffic in. I am really looking forward to seeing most of the traffic on my G600. My Mark IV Eyeball system is getting old, so I see a lot of traffic from TIS on the G600 before the Mark IV.
Jim

I’m leaning toward a 1090ES ADS-B out only transponder which is half the price of getting the ADS-B in with it, and satisfies international requirements. The two I’m looking at are the Garmin GTX 335 and the Appareo. Appareo has an external ADS-B in UAT that is inexpensive and can be upgraded without having to pull the transponder. Garmin has the GDL units but I don’t know that they are as simple to add on as the Appareo. The deciding factor is compatibility with other manufacturers. I’m still researching that.

 

[tbienz]

I recently read about the uAvionix SkyBeacon. Looks like a pretty simple and cost effective solution. Not yet certified for Husky, but probably will be soon.

 

[wbatz1]

I’m leaning toward a 1090ES ADS-B out only transponder which is half the price of getting the ADS-B in with it, and satisfies international requirements. The two I’m looking at are the Garmin GTX 335 and the Appareo. Appareo has an external ADS-B in UAT that is inexpensive and can be upgraded without having to pull the transponder. Garmin has the GDL units but I don’t know that they are as simple to add on as the Appareo. The deciding factor is compatibility with other

GTX 335 you or Your IA can install yourselves. Then take to avionics shop you bought transponder from to program and certify. Really easy if you have a gtx 327 now. Have to upgrade cable to transponder, install gps antenna for gtx 335 with gps source (2995)+295 for altitude encoder. Add “scout” for ads-b in and weather for 199.00. Plus avionics shop $ for program and certify(about 30minutes time).

 

[Ksmith]

I'm still looking for the perfect outbound ADS-B solution for the Husky, I have been using GDL-39 with my 796 and I-pad, incoming traffic & weather is useful, I've canceled Sirius/XM for both aircraft. Recently I had the higher faster plane's (I use for business) GTX330 retrofitted to the ES version with the WAAS signal coming from the Garmin 530. This aircraft has TIS and I find the ADS-B (in AFB) to work as good or better than TIS.

My Husky has a Garmin 430-W so trading in the GTX327 for the GTX-330ES may be the ticket. If anyone finds a cheaper solution to the compliance issue, I'm looking forward to hearing about it.

 

[jkalus]

I talked to the avionics shop earlier today and he told me this exact scenario. He also said Garmin extended the $2995 price reduction another year. I think this is the way I’m leaning, with the quarter size encoder, I really like it.