Ski Flying Rookie

belloypilot

Active Member
Hello all. The installation of a set of RF 8001 skis on my A-1B will be complete in a few days and adventure awaits. I have exactly zero ski flying experience so, while I intend to get some training, I don’t have practical access to anyone with experience with these particular skis on a Husky. So, any advice the group can offer would be appreciated.

In particular, I’d appreciate advice on when to use or not use the tail ski. Is it as obvious as powder versus packed snow conditions?

Any tips, tricks, or dire warnings would be appreciated. Thanks!
 

Snowbirdxx

Well-Known Member
Hardware

Make sure the skis are waxed at the beginning of the season.
Rudder stop screws are in all the way to give you max rudder deflection
Tailski is installed unless snow is less than 10" deep

Taxi

Depending on snow conditions, there is a brake loose moment. Reduce power immediatly after braking loose if low speed taxi is required
You do not have brakes. on Icy snow it may be required to cut the engine to get the plane stopped
Left turns go easier then right turns
Always taxi stick back, only for turns unload the tail by pushing forward.
Turns with flaps full down go easyer and get tighter cause the tail is lighter
Full flaps and full foward stick when in human running speed develop a tight turn, add power and after 1/4 turn it enters in a groundspin, very fast and tight. To recover, opposite rudder stick back and leave some power on to have slipstream over the rudder . 1/2 turn min needed to recover. Try this in a wide open area first, no ditches or trees close by.

Landing

Always use the 3 point landing. Especially in unknown terrain & snow

If landing uphill, use the kinetic energy and power to make a U turn and park the plane as much pointing downhill as possible. But it should not run down on its own. Before shutting the engine, give some power shots to check for secure parking.

Snow conditions are very different and can be challenging. I once that the entire plane sink till the wings in very fresh powder snow. Such powder will sit in a day or two and is very seldom. If this ever happens to you pull the carbheat and take off immediatly to develop lift. When airborne keep the carb heat pulled till next landing. remove all the snow from the engine intake.

If snow tracks from other planes are present in powder, use them for landing. If not, make a track, go around and use your own track.
If these tracks melt during noon and freeze overnight, stay away from them under all circumstances. If you enter a frozen track you will go where the track goes, whatever you do. Exiting is verydifficult and results oftern in ripped off gears.


Light

Do your first flights on a sunny day. Without a single point lightsource, you have no depth reception and will most likely fly into the ground without rounding out. Try to land in your takeoff tracks they give you a reference how high you are. If your landing surface is uphill and the sun behind you, you may get a whiteout. No depth reception at all. So look for tracks. If a landing in flat light is absolutly necessary, trow a black trashbag out the window over the designated landing area. This will give you a reference on final. Collect the bag after landing.


Ski transition

I operate the RF8001 from ski to wheels at 90 mph. During the transition the skis create a pitch down moment. Not so if you hold on to the stick.

Parking

if you intend to park on melted snow overnight, have trashbags with you and slide them under the ski to prevent freezing. Alwasy have a snow shovel and snowboots with you.


Equipment

Snow shovel
Rope
Snow boots
Snow shoes
warm cloth
Food
Black trashbags
Phone

Let someone at the airport know where you are going and by when they should start looking after you. Check with him / her after landing

NEVER LAND IN SNOW WITH WHEELS DOWN :

enjoy ski flying


TomD
 

Glider

Active Member
For lake operations, always make a pass with the skis in the snow and go around , give it a few minutes and look at your tracks, tracks are grey, stay away! Slushy snow will turn darker. If available put the skis in a piece of plywood or cardboard will work also. Pine branches too. Raise the skis when parked if possible when on marginal snow, the sun will tend to melt them in and when the sun disappears you’re froze in, I have black skis, ask me how I know.
After landing and coming to a stop, wait 10 seconds or so and then pull forward a foot or so. The friction from moving across the snow will create a small layer that actually melts the snow briefly, so give the bottoms a chance to cool down then pull forward to eliminate either freezing down or ice sticking to the bottoms. Spare clothing in case of getting wet and enough clothing to spend the night .. the post from mike Vivion is a must read as well
 

belloypilot

Active Member
Preventing the skis from freezing down seems like one of the most common problems to deal with. What do you folks think about using ‘crazy carpets’ to slip under the skis when possible. Seems like they’d be light, durable, and easily rolled up and stored. Thoughts?
 

tbienz

Well-Known Member
I leave the plane for the whole day when I go skiing. I've never seen an RF8001 have a significant freeze down (likely due to the wax base). Sometimes there is just a touch, but rocking the wings a bit before I get in has always worked. I live in a very dry snow/high altitude environment with temps down near zero much of the winter, so it may be different in other locations, I also don't often overnight on the snow in winter.
If you intend to go places that are out of the way (which is really the point), consider purchasing a satellite phone or In-Reach SMS system and a PLB. Always keep a sleeping bag and small tent/bivy in the plane along with a ground pad and down jacket/boots, gloves etc. Purchase a high quality engine cover with lots of insulation (black on outside, hunter orange for emergency on inside). In my plane, if I put this on immediately after a morning landing in temperature around 2 deg F; after 6 hours of skiing, the oil is still at 60 deg. In case you overnight, carry a multi-fuel stove that can burn white gas or (if necessary) 100LL along with some ducting that can pre-heat the plane in the morning. You usually need the stove for food and melting ice for water anyway, and it is much lighter than a generator used with electric engine heat.
When Spring comes, realize that wet snow (or deep powder snow) can increase your takeoff slide to near infinite. I have had to lay a track, turn around and pack the track, then turn around again and takeoff...and it still nearly didn't make it. Being light helps a great deal.
 

belloypilot

Active Member
Thanks, Thomas. It’s unlikely I’ll be letting the plane sit overnight on the skis - at least not on purpose :). The Northern Alberta climate is probably similar to Wyoming (I think that’s where you are). Lower elevation, but otherwise similar. We probably get a lot more temperature variability up here with chinook affect of the east slope of the Rockies, but certainly nothing like coastal or Great Lakes wet snow. Maybe the crazy carpets aren’t necessary. I’ll make sure the skis get a fresh coat of wax. What do you think about some parachute chord to run back and forth under the skis in the unlikely event they do freeze down?

As for survival gear and wilderness and preparedness, I think I have that pretty well covered. I’m accustomed to travel in remote areas of the Canadian North. The challenge for me is often paring down the gear rather than being under-equipped. I have a propane fired pre-heater the size of small toolbox. It connects to 12V for the fan an has a 3” scat hose. Works very well. I agree a cowl cover makes all the difference in the world too.

I busted my composite tail spring on the north shore of Great Bear Lake this summer. My InReach came in real handy that day. It’s a permanent fixture in my Husky.
 

tbienz

Well-Known Member
Rope is always a good idea. I have a tarp, 100 feet of parachute cord, 50 feet of 1/2" braided rope, snow flukes, snow shoes, and an avalanche shovel.
Also, a 12v Lithium jump start pack...the thought of hand-propping in the snow is scary (I've seen it done in a Cub while standing on the right side ski from behind, but the plane starts moving immediately...no thanks).
 

belloypilot

Active Member
07E20326-B89A-44C8-8CE9-12149D4173AE.jpeg

I had to look up what a snow fluke was. Looks like a great idea. My goal for this winter is to land on a glacier about 30 minutes flying time south of my home field. Well, I guess the goal is actually to return home unscathed and share the pictures :). Looks like flukes should be in the kit for that trip. Thanks.
 

Snowbirdxx

Well-Known Member
Nice looking glacier

do you know where the major cravasses are in the summer?

Do you know they are closed?

Do a couple of low ( 20 ft fly bys. Check for bowls and bumps.

Right in the center where that horizontal shadow line is, the glacier seems flatter. LTouchdown in the steep, 180° in the flatter part. Theat looks good for parking and seems to be avalance safe.

Land high enough, do a 180° turn as soon as you reach about 10 mph, add power in the turn and takoff rightaway without stopping.

Do this 2-3 times to make a nice track, then finally stop at the top of your track.

LEan the engine for best power before you land, then shut it by holding a finger on the exposed mixture shaft and push mixture back in as soon as the engine stopps. You are now leaned for best power on takeoff. Use 20° flaps for takeoff.

Do not go there after 12 o clock in case you need SAR.
Do not go there if recent snowfall with prevailing winds from left or right. This bowl will fill with extremly light powder in such conditions.

Enjoy and report

TomD
 
View attachment 3475

I had to look up what a snow fluke was. Looks like a great idea. My goal for this winter is to land on a glacier about 30 minutes flying time south of my home field. Well, I guess the goal is actually to return home unscathed and share the pictures :). Looks like flukes should be in the kit for that trip. Thanks.

I"M IN!
Oh wait, I live in Minnesota, its flat here.
 

belloypilot

Active Member
Great tips, Thomas. Thanks. The problem I’m going to have over the next couple weeks is finding enough flatland snow to practice before tackling the glacier. We had a colder than normal November with lots of snow. Conditions would have been perfect for learning about three weeks ago, but since then its been crazy warm and what snow is left is a crusty layer under ice.

Thanks to everyone for their gear recommendations. Other than the snow flukes, it’s all stuff I have so it’s just a matter of packing it. I’m told the ski installation will be done early next week. Looking forward to it.
 

belloypilot

Active Member
Short hop from Minnesota to NW Alberta. Can’t be more than 1000 nm. Stop by and I’ll buy lunch after we get back from Mt. Ida!
 

Glider

Active Member
Has anyone fashioned a tow bar that works with skis installed? If so, could you share a photo or two?
To prevent the tail of the tailwheel ski from digging in while towing the plane backward I use my regular towbar with the tailwheel and tail ski rotated 180º.
 

belloypilot

Active Member
To prevent the tail of the tailwheel ski from digging in while towing the plane backward I use my regular towbar with the tailwheel and tail ski rotated 180º.

Sounds like good advice. Thanks. Has anyone fashioned a gadget to attach to the main gear with skis installed? When removing the plane from the hangar I have to pull it forward and I really don’t like pushing on the tailwheel. I pull on the tailwheel when pulling it back in the hangar.
 
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