Mountain Flying schools / lessons

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chrispo

Member
i'm thinking of making the trip to McCall next summer to join one of Lori McNichols' mountain flying courses.

Has anyone taken a course from her school? Any other schools, sites, or instructors you would recommend for mountain and canyon flying experience?

What would you expect to pay for specialized training, both on the ground and in the air? It looks pretty pricey at first glance.

thanks,
Chris
 
W

wildwilly

New Member
Chrispo,
I have taken both the Basic and the Advanced Mountain Flying Courses from Lori McNicol's school. I can recommend them highly, especially the Basic, which has a truly excellent ground school.
I flew with several of Lori's instructors. They were all very, very competent airmen and able to provide clear, calm, useful instruction in some fairly hairy situations.
People die regularly in flying the Idaho backcountry, including experienced pilots. This is not a Disneyland thrill ride. I would pay the asking rate for the best instruction available, and not shortchange myself by going with flatland instructors who do not know mountain flying intimately.
Best,
WildWilly
 
bumper

bumper

Well-Known Member
When getting my PPL, I remember asking my instructor if I could circle my house in the country at 500' . . . we did that. During the single turn it was quite apparent she was nervous at maneuvering so low - - and she said as much. Seems low or close in maneuvering was not commonplace in pilot training.

It's interesting that most would not so much as flinch when meeting 4,000 lbs of hurtling metal coming head on at you and passing within 6 feet on a two lane road. Yet they'd be exceedingly uptight when flying level within a wingspan of terrain or when cranked over in a steep turn below 100'. Now I'm not suggesting complacency, or that *all* of one's attention is not advisable when maneuvering close in. I am suggesting that a certain level of comfort and familiarity with the Husky, along with really good stick and rudder skills, should be a prerequisite to flying back country in mountainous terrain, and even more so off-field back country.


Disclaimer: I have not attended a formal mountain flying course. Living next to the eastern flank of the Sierra, 90% of my flying is in high altitude mountainous terrain. Much of that in gliders- - good for learning energy management and orographic effect on localized weather. And lots of off-field dog play time opportunity. I love it here as there's never a problem learning something on each flight - - some of that learning being, "Don't do that again!".

bumper
 
C

chrispo

Member
Thanks, guys. It's valuable to hear from fellow pilots who've been through the course and do this mountain flying stuff for reals. In Austin, our mountains are just 2049' towers...

I have a few goals from taking such a course:

- become a more proficient pilot,
- have some quality mountain experience before venturing to places like Johnson Creek or Smiley Ranch,
- have a hell of a lot of fun doing it

To your point of you get what you pay for, I agree. I fly with one of the most expensive cfii's in this area, but I get twice as much out each lesson than I do elsewhere. It's probably best to err on the side of pricey but reputable, especially for something as specialized as mountain flying.
 
Ksmith

Ksmith

Active Member
If you are interested I can connect you with the gentelmen who first took me into the Idaho Backcountry. He flew for Salmon Air for twenty years, in and out of every strip there. We spent four days in late May 2012 hitting strips and even camping out a night at Thomas creek. we stayed in Salmon and Elk City also.

His name is Stan and he"s based oit of Salt Lake.

The gallery is among those posted here.
 
Paul Collins

Paul Collins

Active Member
As a long-term Idahoan, I got my first mountain flying course from Bob Plummer - a great loss - but Lori'a program is excellent and I too highly recommend it. I would absolutely do it!!
Have fun.
Paul Collins
N337DP
 
jkalus

jkalus

Active Member
I have not attended a school. I think it would be a useful thing to do for someone interested in learning about flying in Idaho.

I would however add that you either need to first have an excellent working knowledge of your Husky in it's performance envelope, or fly with someone who does. Flying with an instructor with no front seat time in a Husky, you would likely end up learning as much negative information and positive.
 
Y

yelodog

New Member
Jeanne MacPherson, Helena, MT (HLN)
http://www.mountainairdancellc.com

I flew with her 2 days after purchasing my Husky, made me feel very much at ease, knows her stuff, didn't cost an arm and a leg. Flew the mountains around Helena first day, flew into the Bob Marshall Wilderness second day. FBO at Helena has bedroom with bunk beds if you don't wish to splurge for a motel.
 
M

Meadowlark

Well-Known Member
Jeanne and her husband Bill are two of the finest people on earth. The lessons Jeanne taught me about survival saved my life. The lessons learned from Rich Stowell's EMT course about flying saved my life. Jeanne now teaches Rich's EMT course at Helena.

Beck's Mustang Fuel is not an FBO. It is however, the lowest cost AvGas in probably all of Montana. That coupled with the "free" bed, shower and airport vans makes Beck's THE place to buy fuel.

J/C GTF
 
C

chrispo

Member
Refresh on an old thread....

I took the McCall Mountain Canyon Flying course in 2014 and got a lot from it. The instructors are top notch and the curriculum was well suited to what I needed.

I'm considering returning to Idaho this summer and would like some brush up instruction. I'd go take another course from MMCF, but they got very expensive - $5400 - $6900 bux. Yow.

Anyone have any favorite ID based instructors? Been in touch with Amy Hoover who seems to have the right approach and a fair fee basis...anyone have experience with her?

thanks,
Chris
 
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Ak Kurt

Ak Kurt

Well-Known Member
Curious, what do you get for 5,400-6,900 bucks? Your airplane or theirs? How many hours and so on....
 
joemcd

joemcd

Active Member
Paul Leadabrand offers instruction on a customizable basis. He has a company called Stick and Rudder Aviation in Boise and also teaches for McCall Mountain and Canyon Flying School.

I have flown with Paul and would very much recommend him. Also, you can get instructors from the McCall school without taking the full blown course.

Paul's website...

http://www.stick-rudder.com/

Joe
 
C

chrispo

Member
Thanks, guys.

The neat thing about visiting Jeanne's school is that I could get some instruction both in mountain flying and in aerobatics in one visit....dang, that sure sounds like fun.

I met Paul in McCall and liked him. Another friend has taken some lessons in his KitFox since and also had a very positive experience. What's his experience in the Husky?

Regarding the McCall courses, $5400 is for a 4 day fundamentals class in your own airplane. It includes 6-9 hours of flight instruction, although I ended up getting more like 12-13 when I took it. It was the right course for me as a newbie mountain pilot.

Their other $6.9k course takes place at the Middle Fork lodge and includes more flight time, survival training, food and lodging. But half this much could go a long way at another flight school.

Anyone have experience with Amy Hoover?

thanks,
Chris
 
joemcd

joemcd

Active Member
As I recall, Paul had considerable Husky experience. I think he flew a Husky for a corporation that owned one. I don't remember exactly what for. Regardless, he is a very competent instructor.
 
tbienz

tbienz

Well-Known Member
I think I'm with Bumper on this one...along with books by Imeson, Potts & Auerbach. But...it does sound like fun. :)
 
groshel

groshel

Active Member
Please excuse me if the answer is obvious....

Taking my A-1B to KCOS this week coming from the east.

I’ve never experienced leaning a plane with a C.S. prop prior to takeoff at high DA airports. With a fixed pitch I know the drill...but what will I be looking for with my Husky? MP change? RPM change? Got a CGR-30P installed.

Thanks in advance.

Chris
 
David

David

Active Member
groshel said:
Please excuse me if the answer is obvious....

Taking my A-1B to KCOS this week coming from the east.

I’ve never experienced leaning a plane with a C.S. prop prior to takeoff at high DA airports. With a fixed pitch I know the drill...but what will I be looking for with my Husky? MP change? RPM change? Got a CGR-30P installed.

Thanks in advance.

Chris
Click to expand...
Chris,

Here is a short video on both fix pitch and CS props by Rod Machado, if you follow him. https://rodmachado.com/blogs/learning-to-fly/leaning-the-mixture-for-a-high-density-altitude-takeoff

Cary a CFI from Wyoming said the following
"First, about leaning. My airplane has a constant speed prop, and I have flown her out of field elevations ranging from 4700' to over 9900'. I used to instruct and charter from Laramie, which has a field elevation of 7377'--we had 172s, 182s, a 206, and a T210. So high DAs are normal flying for me. Whether a fixed pitch or a CS prop, you can lean at normal run-up rpm until the rpm just barely drops, then enrichen the mixture about half an inch of mixture control movement. That works in just about every normally aspirated airplane. You don't need to do a full power run-up. On rougher strips, I do mine on the back taxi as a rolling run-up. (BTW, if you experiment on clean ground, you'll find that the leaning at full power rpm and the leaning at reduced run-up rpm is just about the same.)"

I fly from my home strip of 80' msl to strips in the Sierra Nevada whose DA in the summer is always 6,000-11,000 ft msl. I personally use the same method that Cary uses and I was taught that by an instructor who has always flown from high density airports in the Sierras and Nevada for over 50 years. I use that method when flying in the Idaho back country too. DA is DA. It has never failed me so far in my Husky or when I flew a CS Scout either.

Hope this helps.
David
 
Snowbirdxx

Snowbirdxx

Well-Known Member
The above methods work on long strips and on wheels. You got brakes and endless time. On short strips and on skis you do not. Overfly the landing area as low as possible 200 ft above is fine ) with full MP and Takeoff RPM, set mixture to best power. Then change MP and RPM as needed to land , but do not touch the mixture.

To shut the engine down, put a finger on the chrome mixture actuator where it enters the panel. Pull the mixture, leave the finger there as a marker, and push the mixture back in till the finger hits the panel. Now you have pest power mixture for startup.
 
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