Advice needed on how to properly ditch a husky with larger tires!

[newhuskyflyer]

Regarding glide ratio...couple of years ago Aviat hosted a webinar to discuss issues...one topic was glide ratio..someone at the company admitted to 6:1...which was probably with a Trailblazer or MT.

Tom D suggests pulling the prop back if you have oil pressure and gaining quite a few points of glide.

Did flight crew stuff across the N. Atlantic in large cabin biz jet stuff for a couple decades....got some pool training time ....but I can’t swim a lick.

Always figured if the pilots could get it down in one piece there “might” be a chance of getting out “ if” the cabin E windows or doors didn’t distort at a 130 kt touchdown in swells... just got to get that 14 person raft thru a 26” oval window...and get in...and cut loose...probably at night .....that’s all!

Did OSH in a Mooney across Lake Michigan with a friend once at 10k....had about 10 minutes of pure uncomfortable when I started realizing where I was.

So you can imagine how I go to OSH? Indiana and Illinois are one big grass runway.

Thanks for the input. Sometimes one needs to just simply remember the basics and think through risk reward and benefits. Happy to go around for the extra half hour and peace of mind - not even an issue. And the good news is Sportys is going to take back the raft! LOL.

 

[JimC01]

Brakes on or off makes no difference when waterskiing. Holding brakes invites error as you touch the dirt under water when approaching the beach so I’d recommend against it. Locking the brakes also invites error if you forget when you’re done playing on the water which would make for a very bad day on the runway later.

Makes sense. Brakes OFF.
Any other recommendations/tips re technique?
Thanks for the advice.
Actually, to avoid hijacking this thread, I should start my own separate thread.

 

[newhuskyflyer]

Hijack away! It’s all good stuff. Wait till I start with three points versus wheels landings for the hundredth time on this forum! LOL

 

[Larson]

I think everything that has been said has strengths.
It is interesting peoples perspectives on water ditching and being within gliding distance of land, yet many will operate mountain flying over/in very inhospitable terrain and choose to do it?
I know if I had the choice between a water ditching or land ditching in inhospitable terrain, I know which one I’d choose (Taking other environmental factors out of it).

I believe the biggest risk in a water ditching is surviving the water impact. Big risk of being knocked out by all that steel tubing in a Husky. The Husky is a very strong fuselage- you will survive the touch down- the cockpit will stay intact (provided it’s controlled)- high chance you will be in your back- windshield may cave in.
Probably a good reason to wear a helmet in a steel tube fuselage aircraft like a Husky.
Emergency egress training a huge plus here.

After you have ditched- phase two is getting out and surviving until help arrives- best to be able to tell someone to come and get you? (Before and/or after). .. if you have freezing temperatures or other environmental conditions, that could be a problem!

Another perspective is - the Husky is a machine, it doesn’t know where it is, it will do whatever it is told to do mechanically by the pilot- unless it has a mechanical failure of some kind?

The above is just a perspective and ‘food for thought’ .... flying has many risks, as pilots we choose to manage risk and everyone has a slight variation of acceptable risks- some good, some not so good? .... but isn’t it great to be able to make your own choice and not be dictated by ‘rules and regs’. These choices (like life choices) seem to change or temper as we get older too.

 

[FW Dave]

Let me throw one thing out.. in 45 degree water, with gloves, you have about 3-5 minutes at the most of useful time of function of your hands and arms.. If you are not out and in your raft, and get your hands out of the water, you are done.. even if you are floating.. your hands shut down.. I know this because I have done it.. When I trained for arctic and polar flying, we were lowered into the pool at 45 deg by a safety tether.. 3 min to egress the ejection seat kit, clear the parachute, get into the raft, inflate the spray shield.. while your hands fade away.. Take the gliding distance thing seriously..

 

[newhuskyflyer]

Let me throw one thing out.. in 45 degree water, with gloves, you have about 3-5 minutes at the most of useful time of function of your hands and arms.. If you are not out and in your raft, and get your hands out of the water, you are done.. even if you are floating.. your hands shut down.. I know this because I have done it.. When I trained for arctic and polar flying, we were lowered into the pool at 45 deg by a safety tether.. 3 min to egress the ejection seat kit, clear the parachute, get into the raft, inflate the spray shield.. while your hands fade away.. Take the gliding distance thing seriously..

Taken seriously. Thanks Dave!

 

[Ak Kurt]

Raj,

I like your planned route to OSH. Consider flying under Chicago airspace along the shore line, its a really cool flight when you fly by down town Chicago! Like I said, stop by if you would like, we can socialize and fly. Maybe we can get FW Dave to come up or possibly we can get you a ride in Jeff's Husky on amphibious floats. This is a Husky Neighborhood. Hopefully Bill will stop by on his way home.

Kurt

 

[FW Dave]

I will come up if Im here!.. its only 45 min to Kurts. Michiana is Husky Hood

 

[Snowbirdxx]

I once ditched a Twincommance in the Caribbean and was lucky to be close to an island. When I flew my Husky to Eupe I was wearing a survival suit. Was lucky too.
Talking glider ratio. Most Garmin handhelds can display the glide ratio. Climb to 6000 ft above the the ground over a not busy airstrip and pull to idle trimmed at 70 mph. Let the stick go. Pull the mixture and get a glide ratio reading with prop forward after about 30 seconds. Then pull the prop and the glide almost doubles within 20 seconds. Try to restart the engine at 3000 ft above ground with prop forward.

 

[newhuskyflyer]

I once ditched a Twincommance in the Caribbean and was lucky to be close to an island. When I flew my Husky to Eupe I was wearing a survival suit. Was lucky too.
Talking glider ratio. Most Garmin handhelds can display the glide ratio. Climb to 6000 ft above the the ground over a not busy airstrip and pull to idle trimmed at 70 mph. Let the stick go. Pull the mixture and get a glide ratio reading with prop forward after about 30 seconds. Then pull the prop and the glide almost doubles within 20 seconds. Try to restart the engine at 3000 ft above ground with prop forward.

....or you can just tell us! Lol! Not a gigantic fan of stopping the engine on purpose! Call me crazy!

 

[Snowbirdxx]

The engine will not quit, but keep on windmilling at 70 mph

 

[newhuskyflyer]

I got this from the Beechtalk site, in a discussion regarding the recent ditching in Half Moon Bay - interesting stuff - It was too big to upload, so here is a drop box link --

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xonyk0nav7oj36y/DitchingWaterSurvivalModule9.pdf?dl=0

 

[GreggMotonaga]

Prior to the Aviat modification which gave the rear seat passenger more door space, ingress and egress is typically a series of yoga moves that only the masters can make elegant. It would be bad enough to get yourself as the pilot out of the aircraft in a ditching situation, but if you have a passenger back there, I already have a pessimistic outlook for their well being, and that is if you land in warm water. In cold water? Forget about it. I use 1000' for each mile because it is a touch on the conservative side and because it is easy mental math.

Thomas, if you run out of gas (or mixture to idle cutoff) don't you consider that the engine has quit, even if it is windmilling?

And Thomas, that was only to try and get your attention because on a completely unrelated note, I sent you an email about your tail spring but haven't heard back from you.

 

[lowlevelops]

In decades past I’ve seen a video of a Cessna 180 ditching next to a ship .... I can’t find the video, but there are a couple of stills out there of it, here’s one of them. As I remember they had the doors open prior to touchdown, but getting out from under the wing still looks pretty scary.

 

[bumper]

A few thoughts. I've flown my Husky in mountain wave at Minden, prop stopped and going up at 1,000 fpm is interesting. I didn't do it for long as I didn't want to cold soak the engine (it was winter and below freezing). BTW, when I decided to do a restart, I pushed the nose down to see if I could get it to windmill. I have a tight engine, I gave up before getting to VNE and used the starter.

Prop stopped has a lot less drag than windmilling in high pitch. If you need to maximize glide, and there is no chance of a re-start, stop the prop to greatly improve L/D. See:
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2011/february/01/proficient-pilot

If water landing in swells, land parallel unless the wind is very strong, then into the wind. Use full flaps and touch down on the mains, then lower the tail. At least in reasonably smooth water, the mains should start to sink enough to trip the plane over onto its back at about 30 mph or a bit less. (I have not done this on water, but I have done so on the ground. If belts are tight,mpact is not too bad - I bumped my head hard enough to have a sore neck, but I'm over 6'.

Use your arm to brace yourself before releasing seat belt, to prevent falling. On the ground, egress is dirt simple, just crawl out onto the wing. In the water, it might be that engine weight will have the plane in a nose down attitude - I haven't tried it, and hope not to, bad enough teaching the dog to roll over on land.

 

[newhuskyflyer]

A few thoughts. I've flown my Husky in mountain wave at Minden, prop stopped and going up at 1,000 fpm is interesting. I didn't do it for long as I didn't want to cold soak the engine (it was winter and below freezing). BTW, when I decided to do a restart, I pushed the nose down to see if I could get it to windmill. I have a tight engine, I gave up before getting to VNE and used the starter.

Prop stopped has a lot less drag than windmilling in high pitch. If you need to maximize glide, and there is no chance of a re-start, stop the prop to greatly improve L/D. See:
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2011/february/01/proficient-pilot

If water landing in swells, land parallel unless the wind is very strong, then into the wind. Use full flaps and touch down on the mains, then lower the tail. At least in reasonably smooth water, the mains should start to sink enough to trip the plane over onto its back at about 30 mph or a bit less. (I have not done this on water, but I have done so on the ground. If belts are tight,mpact is not too bad - I bumped my head hard enough to have a sore neck, but I'm over 6'.

Use your arm to brace yourself before releasing seat belt, to prevent falling. On the ground, egress is dirt simple, just crawl out onto the wing. In the water, it might be that engine weight will have the plane in a nose down attitude - I haven't tried it, and hope not to, bad enough teaching the dog to roll over on land.

BUMPER -this sounds like fun, except for upside down part - ! went around for OSHKOSH and will keep doing so, out here its tough as flying to the Vineyard or Block Island/Nantucket, but will keep it high and gliding distance, but its always a thought in my head, how to do it right?? --! Under worst case -