Peat Bogs Make Bad Runways

[belloypilot]

Nothing apparent yet but the shop hasn’t completed a thorough inspection yet either. So far they’ve been focused on getting the engine removed and shipped. I doubt anything serious will be found. The nose over was about as gentle as you could imagine.

 

[Ak Kurt]

Hopefully they used a spreader bar when they attached to the lift rings. Hopefully no damage from the sling.

Where are you based? Where is the airplane now?

Kurt

 

[johnaz]

I made the decision to go with the Ultra. Even if performance is a wash, I like the idea of it being smoother so I’m looking forward to flying it. The word today is the engine shop is a bit backed up so it could be 3-4 weeks there, so unlikely to be flying it before September.

Ultra is not smoother than Trailblazer. The same in my view and I have both. The Ultra did uncover a slight pulsing in mine, found it was running a bit lean, so had to send carb out to be flowed to richen it up. Think Kurt found the same thing. Ultra is thinner blades, more flexible and totally a different design than the Hartzell, but as far as my tests can tell no difference between them for performance.
Just my view, Hartzell to me seems more robust, but both perform the same.
John

 

[Ak Kurt]

Yep, what John said above.

Make sure you replace your rubber motor mounts while you have the engine off, now is the time to do it! This will add to the smoothness, these mounts don't last as long as we think they do. Also, while the engine is off, send the mags out to Aircraft Magneto Service for the 500 hour inspection, as I have posted in other threads, this is a MUST and now that the engine is off and the access to the mags is easy this is the time to do it! Look for my thread on the mags.

Kurt

 

[belloypilot]

Mag overhaul is part of the plan. Good advice on replacing engine mounts. I’ll see that happens.

I’m sticking with an MT product to be in the best possible position to exchange parts and maximize insurance coverage, should that become a factor. Too soon to tell. I don’t doubt the Hartzell is as good. I was just trying to keep this simple.

Yep, definately used a spreader bar. If you look close on the photo with it hanging from the helicopter you can see it. It was modeled after the one we use to change wheels/skis, just beefier and doubled up on the cables.

The aircraft is currently at Hill Aviation in Prince George (CYXS). My home base is Grande Prairie (CYQU). The accident happened about 50 nm NNE of Prince George.

 

[Ak Kurt]

Yep, been to Prince George many times between states and Alaska, its been a while though. Good on the spreader bar! Good luck with the repairs. Keep us posted.

Kurt

Ps, I have 5 years and 500 hours on my airplane and I am starting to see a little sag in the engine, I am changing all 4 mounts next month during the annual.

 

[belloypilot]

Johnaz, to be clear I wasn’t suggesting the ultra was smoother than the Hartzell - just saying reports are its smoother than the 205.

Pretty sure these are the original mounts with 19 years and 1350 hours. These 360s are thumpers, so no surprise they chew up engine mounts.

 

[Ak Kurt]

Wow, 19 years, 1350 hours, yep, change em out!

Kurt

 

[Ak Kurt]

I will bet ya a cup of Timmy Hortons finest that there will be no damage to your engine especially since it had an MT prop and not a metal one on it. I could be wrong but I would be very surprised. Still, a tear down is a must.

Kurt

 

[johnaz]

Mag overhaul is part of the plan. Good advice on replacing engine mounts. I’ll see that happens.

I’m sticking with an MT product to be in the best possible position to exchange parts and maximize insurance coverage, should that become a factor. Too soon to tell. I don’t doubt the Hartzell is as good. I was just trying to keep this simple.

Yep, definately used a spreader bar. If you look close on the photo with it hanging from the helicopter you can see it. It was modeled after the one we use to change wheels/skis, just beefier and doubled up on the cables.

The aircraft is currently at Hill Aviation in Prince George (CYXS). My home base is Grande Prairie (CYQU). The accident happened about 50 nm NNE of Prince George.

I have been through that way in my Husky three times in the last year and a half. Spent the night several times in Grande Prairie going both ways from Anchorage to Arizona. Made the trip at least 20 times over the years. Kurt talks about Tim Hortons, my last Grumman Widgeon was owned by Tim for a number of years, flown only in summers, hangered in winters.. Small world. He was killed in a Pantera too, and I restored one of them.
John

 

[Ak Kurt]

John, I remember your Widgeon when Bruce brought it home in 1986.

 

[belloypilot]

I have been through that way in my Husky three times in the last year and a half. Spent the night several times in Grande Prairie going both ways from Anchorage to Arizona. Made the trip at least 20 times over the years. Kurt talks about Tim Hortons, my last Grumman Widgeon was owned by Tim for a number of years, flown only in summers, hangered in winters.. Small world. He was killed in a Pantera too, and I restored one of them.
John

No way! It would or be great if you’d let me know next time you come through and we could meet up. I’d love to hear about your favorite route to Alaska from here and share some stories from our arctic trip last summer.

 

[belloypilot]

I will bet ya a cup of Timmy Hortons finest that there will be no damage to your engine especially since it had an MT prop and not a metal one on it. I could be wrong but I would be very surprised. Still, a tear down is a must.

Kurt

Also because wet peat is like marshmallows. Pretty gentle prop strike. The blade broke because it snapped backward from the forward momentum of the aircraft, not because of rotational forces. I’m optimistic and not looking for excuses to overhaul.

 

[bumper]

Also because wet peat is like marshmallows. Pretty gentle prop strike. The blade broke because it snapped backward from the forward momentum of the aircraft, not because of rotational forces. I’m optimistic and not looking for excuses to overhaul.

Yup, when I taught my dog to roll over, it was on hard pack dirt with a Hartzell 80" aluminum that was bent down to within a foot of the blade base. Engine was fine. Tear down was a waste of money, the O-360 is a very robust engine. Crankshaft runout check is the only thing that should be required IMO.

 

[Snowbirdxx]

Lyc Sb 201D spells that out

 

[Larson]

Engine was fine. Tear down was a waste of money, the O-360 is a very robust engine. Crankshaft runout check is the only thing that should be required IMO.

Although saying that, I had a mate buy under 70hrs TSN, (factory new engine) from an RV6, that had a low speed roll over. The Crank didn’t pass- I never would have expected that....?

 

[belloypilot]

An update on repairs to BED. Finally.

Dealing with insurance has been more painful than I'd expected. No reluctance to pay, so no concerns there, but in order to move the project along I ended up paying for almost everything then seeking insurance reimbursement. I guess that's just the pace the wheels turn sometimes. If I'd known that going in I'd have had my airplane back in 6 weeks instead of 10. Live and learn, I suppose.

The engine teardown was, as expected, uneventful. They spotted some minor corrosion on a few lifters so they got replaced. Nothing on the cam and nothing of note found elsewhere, so a clean bill of health. New mags, a few new hoses, new engine mounts, a few other details I'm not thinking of right now and the engine is (hopefully) all good. It was a tough call whether or not to overhaul at 1350 hours, but I'm putting 50-75 hours/year on it so there's lots years between now and 2000 hours. The engine was running strong and clean so I decided not to overhaul. Ask me in a year (or ten) if that was a good idea.

It's sitting at the shop with a new MT Ultra prop. MT ships a flat black spinner with the new ones. They claim the 'chrome look' finish wasn't standing up well. The one on my old 205 was 9 years old and still looked quite good so I had them reinstall it. If the finish starts to deteriorate I'll get the new one painted and change it out, but not today. I'm very curious about the perceptible differences between this Ultra and the old 205. Considering the engine work (especially honed cylinders and new rings) there are just too many variables to assess any kind of performance difference, but even so I doubt it's much. I'll be disappointed if it isn't noticeably smoother, though. That was one of the big advertised benefits. Not sure if I'll ever know if it's quieter other than by what folks on the ground tell me.

It's now two months away from needing an annual so I'm having the shop complete that before I pick it up. I'm assuming they are more than half way there with all the work they've done.

I haven't seen it yet. I travel to Prince George this coming Thursday morning. The plan is to spend the first day inspecting and conducting a few local flights. If all checks out well I'll strike out for Grande Prairie the following morning. It's a relatively short flight if direct, but nothing but tall rocks so I think I'll fly one of the mountain passes and stay over the highway. That will at least double the flight time, but also provide a better break-in opportunity.

It's almost ski flying season again! Now the project is to get it properly broken in with a few longer, higher power flights before winter mountain-hopping starts .

 

[johnaz]

An update on repairs to BED. Finally.

Dealing with insurance has been more painful than I'd expected. No reluctance to pay, so no concerns there, but in order to move the project along I ended up paying for almost everything then seeking insurance reimbursement. I guess that's just the pace the wheels turn sometimes. If I'd known that going in I'd have had my airplane back in 6 weeks instead of 10. Live and learn, I suppose.

The engine teardown was, as expected, uneventful. They spotted some minor corrosion on a few lifters so they got replaced. Nothing on the cam and nothing of note found elsewhere, so a clean bill of health. New mags, a few new hoses, new engine mounts, a few other details I'm not thinking of right now and the engine is (hopefully) all good. It was a tough call whether or not to overhaul at 1350 hours, but I'm putting 50-75 hours/year on it so there's lots years between now and 2000 hours. The engine was running strong and clean so I decided not to overhaul. Ask me in a year (or ten) if that was a good idea.

It's sitting at the shop with a new MT Ultra prop. MT ships a flat black spinner with the new ones. They claim the 'chrome look' finish wasn't standing up well. The one on my old 205 was 9 years old and still looked quite good so I had them reinstall it. If the finish starts to deteriorate I'll get the new one painted and change it out, but not today. I'm very curious about the perceptible differences between this Ultra and the old 205. Considering the engine work (especially honed cylinders and new rings) there are just too many variables to assess any kind of performance difference, but even so I doubt it's much. I'll be disappointed if it isn't noticeably smoother, though. That was one of the big advertised benefits. Not sure if I'll ever know if it's quieter other than by what folks on the ground tell me.

It's now two months away from needing an annual so I'm having the shop complete that before I pick it up. I'm assuming they are more than half way there with all the work they've done.

I haven't seen it yet. I travel to Prince George this coming Thursday morning. The plan is to spend the first day inspecting and conducting a few local flights. If all checks out well I'll strike out for Grande Prairie the following morning. It's a relatively short flight if direct, but nothing but tall rocks so I think I'll fly one of the mountain passes and stay over the highway. That will at least double the flight time, but also provide a better break-in opportunity.

It's almost ski flying season again! Now the project is to get it properly broken in with a few longer, higher power flights before winter mountain-hopping starts .

I have the Hartzell Trailblazer and the Ultra. Tried them both on the same Husky, could tell no difference. The claimed speed is not there on mine compared to the Hartzell. Hartzell just seems more stout to me. Will be running the Ultra on the lightweight project, nearing completion in Oct. Only using the Ultra as it is 2 lbs lighter than the Hartzell.
John

 

[tbienz]

I’ll bet if you took a hundred random piston engines apart that hadn’t had a prop strike there might be a good number that allegedly have cranks that engine shops say “don’t pass”.
Early in my Husky experience I got a tailwind under my empennage while trying to turn around for takeoff on a windy, deep sand beach. I had 850’s and they sunk. The plane tipped up and hit the metal prop on sand. It bent...and stopped. The shop removed the engine, not to tear it down but to check the gear mechanism on the back/runout. Re-installed with new prop. I elected not to use insurance. The inspection wasn’t very expensive, took just a few days and I had bought the plane knowing I wanted an MT 210 anyway so I had already budgeted for it. This was hundreds of hours and many years ago. I’ve been through another prop strike (barely noticeable scratch on a towbar due to an instructor starting our flying club’s 172 with towbar attached)...no slowdown, no stoppage. Prop damage could be filed out. That mechanic claimed the engine needed teardown and the prop needed overhaul. The prop shop disagreed, but the engine shop was happy for the business. This stuff is far from “established protocol.”

 

[belloypilot]

It’s home and in the barn now. It will be a while before I have an informed opinion on the difference between the Ultra and the 205 it replaced because of the power settings I’m running during break in are higher than those I’d normally run. First impressions are it’s quieter and smoother, but no substantial performance difference. I know it balanced better than my 205 did, but part of the smoother operation may come from the new motor mounts.

It might be my imagination, but I don’t think the aerodynamic braking is quite as effective, which would make sense considering the shorter chord blades. It does seem to be a bit easier to finesse it down in flare, though. Not quite the abrupt plunk when pulling the power back to idle just before touching down. Hard to say how much that lengthens the landing roll, if any.

In any case, after about 4 hours on it since the repair it sure seems to be at least as good if not better than before. Considering how close this was to being an insurance write off, that’s a very good feeling.

Mike