SureFly Electronic Ignition Module

[Snowbirdxx]

Our master switch relay that comes originally on the husky draws about 4 A out of the battery when on. When switching to a surefly n or p I would go for a Bosch relay that draws only 0.2A . That gives you a longer battery life when the generator fails. Longer battery life means now longer dual ignition. Would be interesting to know how much A the surefly is drawing. But with a 10A breaker I am guessing 7 A. But this is a guess only, actual numbers would be helpful. For my kind of flying I would love to know the limits of my systems.

 

[jliltd]

Thomas Bienz,

You nailed it. Yes and Yes. I wish I could write brief concise explanations like that. I can be a keyboard windbag.

Speaking of of which, the SureFly reps at OSH tended to suggest replacing the impulse magneto for a couple of reasons. First was eliminating the contrary mechanical impulse contraption. Secondly they saw problems with folks not removing the grounding jumper from their rotary ignition switch and the associated tech support bother. Once I explained what I did and my reasoning they liked it.

Jim

 

[FW Dave]

And if you carry one of those small engine Jumper batteries like I do, and the main battery dies, you might be able to jump it..

if your batt is dead, and after you hand prop it:

Our alternators are 50-70 amp units.. Idle the engine up a bit.. then engage the Master and Alt field.
The master should then close, and begin charging..
The EI and attitude will come on line, and the Sure fly will power up and fire

Give the alternator a chance to charge it before turning on external lighting.

If I recall correctly the Sure fly unit only pulls 0.9 amp max.. the 10 amp fuse is primarily for short control. The parasitic draw of the unit on the battery when sitting off, is less than a milli amp, but it does have draw, so a tender will be necessary for sit times over a few weeks or months..

 

[FW Dave]

Our master switch relay that comes originally on the husky draws about 4 A out of the battery when on. When switching to a surefly n or p I would go for a Bosch relay that draws only 0.2A . That gives you a longer battery life when the generator fails. Longer battery life means now longer dual ignition. Would be interesting to know how much A the surefly is drawing. But with a 10A breaker I am guessing 7 A. But this is a guess only, actual numbers would be helpful. For my kind of flying I would love to know the limits of my systems.

Thomas, Thank you, what specific relay are you recommending?
In the mean time, If the alternator charging fails, one can turn off the Master when ready, and the Sure fly will still fire, its hooked to the hot side, but of course you need power for other things such as radio and navigation. The rep said it would stay on line around 7 volts. Dont forget to turn off all NON essential items if you fail an alternator field. It should last a Long time unless the battery just craps and the field is shorted or dead.

Specs are 0.7 plus or minus .2 amps, 8.5 volts min

 

[tbienz]

I can see why they want the unit hard-wired to the battery to avoid ignition issues if a relay fails, but what is the system doing that causes a draw when the aircraft is sitting in the hangar? Is there any downside to pulling that 10A breaker if you're going to leave the plane for a month?

 

[Snowbirdxx]

Dave,

I am using the Bosch / Tyco 332002150 since 20 years. Never had a failure. They are used on the GROB airplanes as well.
Once I left the master on, cam 5 days later to the plane, the battery had enough power left to start the engine.

 

[FW Dave]

I can see why they want the unit hard-wired to the battery to avoid ignition issues if a relay fails, but what is the system doing that causes a draw when the aircraft is sitting in the hangar? Is there any downside to pulling that 10A breaker if you're going to leave the plane for a month?

the parasite draw is slightly less than 1 Milliamp. SO.. if you are going to leave it for a couple month, hook it up to a tender. during flying season shouldn't be a problem at all.. that's less than your clock in your car draws.

I can see no issue at all pulling the breaker based on what I have learned.. the electronics boot up when the internal relay logic is commanded(ungrounded) via the Key

public math.. 1 milli amp draw takes 1000 hours to pull out 1AH from a battery. thats equivalent to having the master on for 10-15 min playing with the radios.

 

[tbienz]

Sounds like a non-issue....thanks.

 

[FW Dave]

Ok, I bit the bullet.. I ordered the Impulse SIM today.. My bird is getting hard to start.. spins nicely with the new starter/wire mod, maybe too fast.. just hardly will fire.. if I catch it just right, ofter it barks, I can let go the key and it will catch on the right mag, but pops... have had enough.. My mags are on the defective parts list.. 200 hrs.. damn .. I will pull the Left mag, and replace it with the SIM, and pull the right mag and give it some lovin over at Klines shop in Jackson MI.. My IA and I will do the work.. I will be running the 14 ga wire next week under the belly. 10 amp inline fuse from Battery to back of motor. I plan to just follow the starter cable routing.

The plan is to install it at +3 ATDC, and set it for 28 deg advance. resulting in 25 deg BTDC fixed timing, and a slight delay ATDC for starting.

 

[FW Dave]

oh the reason it uses a 10 amp fuse is just for short control, and the reason it uses 14 gage wire is to minimize any voltage drop and stay powered at very low battery conditions.. I have a HD charge wire on my battery for the tinder that can be used to power the ignition and master relay for a dead battery hand prop, and I have a Lithium diesel mini jumper battery in my field kit...

 

[joemcd]

Dave,

Why not use a circuit breaker instead of a fuse? It seems nice to be able to pull the breaker to not draw on the battery during longer periods of inactivity. As long as you can’t reset the breaker in flight, it seems like a better option to me.

My guess is that you have thought about it. What is your opinion?

Joe

 

[FW Dave]

good idea.. the installation manual calls for a fuse.. but I guess that would be ok?

 

[Ak Kurt]

I would bet they don't want you to use a CB because you could reset it in flight. Although, as highly unlikely as it may be, If this mag is malfunctioning in some way and the breaker pops one could only imagine the possible serious damage that could be inflicted on the engine by resetting the breaker to a malfunctioning mag. The FAA and the manufacture probably wants any trouble shooting to be accomplished on the ground.

Kurt

 

[FW Dave]

Our master switch relay that comes originally on the husky draws about 4 A out of the battery when on. When switching to a surefly n or p I would go for a Bosch relay that draws only 0.2A . That gives you a longer battery life when the generator fails. Longer battery life means now longer dual ignition. Would be interesting to know how much A the surefly is drawing. But with a 10A breaker I am guessing 7 A. But this is a guess only, actual numbers would be helpful. For my kind of flying I would love to know the limits of my systems.

Thomas I cannot tell you how happy I am with the Tyco relay.. my aircraft cranks with authority and the battery lasts..

 

[joemcd]

Kurt,

You are exactly right that the reason for the fuse is so you can’t reset it in flight. My thought is to place the breaker in the battery area. That way you get to use a breaker and it still satisfies not being able to reset it. Seems like the best way to me.

Joe

 

[FW Dave]

I would bet they don't want you to use a CB because you could reset it in flight. Although, as highly unlikely as it may be, If this mag is malfunctioning in some way and the breaker pops one could only imagine the possible serious damage that could be inflicted on the engine by resetting the breaker to a malfunctioning mag. The FAA and the manufacture probably wants any trouble shooting to be accomplished on the ground.

Kurt

Maybe so Kurt.. good thoughts.. in my case either way it will end up in the battery compartment likely, as I dont have any 12v hot bus anywhere except for the main connection on the batt. With the tyco I cannot put anything on the hot side of the relay.

 

[joemcd]

Dave and Kurt, look back at the pics on the very first post on this thread. Jim used a breaker by the battery.

 

[FW Dave]

It is totally dependent on electricity. That's why the STC requires keeping one original magneto of the owner's choice. I chose to keep the L impulse mag and replaced the R mag with a SureFly SIM4N. My logic being if the battery is dead it is easier to handprop on the L Slick impulse mag. And during normal operations I now have two ignitions firing on start, one of which is the higher energy SureFly firing at TDC for start augmented by the legacy impulse coupled mag. I removed the jumper from the mag switch that used to ground the R mag on start to enable the dual ignition start.

I have an EI electronic tach (part of the CGR 30P engine monitor) so I had to replace the original EI isolator from the R plead with a 1/4 Watt 18 KOhm resistor. Without the resistor the electronic tach can't read RPM from the SureFly pulse so mag check shows zero and the mag failure annuciator stays lit. The engine runs great but swapping the resistor returns normal rpm readings to the electronic tach. This is not in the installation instructions but can be found in the product FAQs on the web site.

I am very happy so far with about 25 hours on the setup.

Jim

Jim, where is the resistor located? I ordered one

 

[Snowbirdxx]

DAve, I have my Tyco master relay controlled by ground, so not even a hot bus there. So when my MAsterswitch goes on I am supplying GRND to the Tyco to colse contacts. . So the hot 12 V wire is very short and a GRND wire runs to the MAster and back.

 

[FW Dave]

DAve, I have my Tyco master relay controlled by ground, so not even a hot bus there. So when my MAsterswitch goes on I am supplying GRND to the Tyco to colse contacts. . So the hot 12 V wire is very short and a GRND wire runs to the MAster and back.

Thomas, Yes sir, I will eventually swap that around too, just didn't do it when I installed it.. Should be easy enough to swap it around, just run the loop to ground, and swap the hot side from the breaker.. I should have done that when I installed it.. Im sure impressed with the performance of that relay..