Three point landing advice

mritter

Member
I’ve been flying the Husky for 10 years now. Before that, C-180/185, C-120, PA-18...a few different types.

When I started flying the Husky I gravitated towards the “tail low wheel landing” technique and really liked it. I’d say 98% of my landings are such with an occasional true wheel landing. Every now and then for proficiency I get a wild hair and try a three point landing...and it sucks.

Two things; I can’t get the tail wheel to touch first. Elevator trim is full nose up. One of two things seems to happen...I either plop it on from too high or I touch down on the mains with the tail still a foot or so in the air. This with the stick full back in my nuts, full trim and what I believe to be good speed control.

Any ideas?
 

belloypilot

Active Member
Do you have the same problem regardless of flap setting?

Lots more experience on this board than I have, but thoughts that come to mind are a possible tail rigging problem or CG toward the forward end of the envelope.

I have more to learn than teach here so I’m attentively standing by :).
 

mritter

Member
I’ve thought about the CG issue seeing that I’m most times solo. Good point.
I’ve used the blast of power trick too, particularly on steep approaches to a three point. It certainly helps, there just doesn’t seem to be much elevator there.
 

Snowbirdxx

Well-Known Member
First of all increase the elevator travel by adjusting the stop screw on the rear stick bottom.

Then leave some power on till the tail touches or the mains. With power off and not tailheavy loaded you do not have enough elevator authority to hold the nose uo. Power is needed.
Chop power without delay when any wheel touches first.

Enjoy
 

groshel

Active Member
All my landings are three point and the better ones are ones with a tad of power kept on in the flare. It really doesn’t cause that much of a longer landing and allows me to keep the elevator more effective and the nose higher.

As Thomas said you have to chop it quickly after planting the plane.
 

johnaz

Active Member
For shortest, full flaps, slight nudge of power near ground to keep nose up. Do not need to trim full back, just hold stick at flare, nudge of power or sink rate too high. I can usually 3 point, plop down, then stop quickly.
Fine line for right 3 point attitude., just have to get used to correct slight power add before touchdown.
John
 

tbienz

Well-Known Member
I think it will also depend on which plane you have. We have 3 Huskies on our field and they all seem to land different. I have an A1 and it has no problem landing in 3 point or even tail first. The other one is a 200hp and lands pretty similar to mine, but perhaps a bit faster. The 3rd is also a 200hp plane and looses elevator authority during the flare unless he has a large weight in the tail baggage area.
 

GreggMotonaga

Active Member
I’ve been flying the Husky for 10 years now. Before that, C-180/185, C-120, PA-18...a few different types.

When I started flying the Husky I gravitated towards the “tail low wheel landing” technique and really liked it. I’d say 98% of my landings are such with an occasional true wheel landing. Every now and then for proficiency I get a wild hair and try a three point landing...and it sucks.

Two things; I can’t get the tail wheel to touch first. Elevator trim is full nose up. One of two things seems to happen...I either plop it on from too high or I touch down on the mains with the tail still a foot or so in the air. This with the stick full back in my nuts, full trim and what I believe to be good speed control.

Any ideas?
I have an idea. And a few comments.

The comments are first.

Landing three point is simply about attitude at touchdown. And the tires that you have can significantly impact the three point attitude. 600-6 tires versus 35" bush wheels are totally different situations. If you have the trim rolled all the way aft and the stick is in your belly, why are you not able to achieve the three point attitude? Your elevator effectiveness has been limited. Let's get some elevator effectiveness back. Balance of the aircraft is important. Energizing the elevator with the engine by carrying power is also useful. And in the absence of power (engine out for instance), then you must arrive into the landing zone with enough airspeed to keep the elevator energized until touchdown. If in the power off situation it is impossible to keep the plane flying before you get to the three point, then your tires have set an unachievable outcome.

To further explore this idea of arriving with enough airspeed when attempting to land at idle power, imagine an extreme situation if you were to set up for a final approach with the power reduced at idle with the trim rolled aft and the plane leaf falling toward the landing zone. As you attempted your roundout, you will quickly realize that the stick is already fully aft and there is not enough energy to get the plane to the three point attitude or any increase in attitude for that matter.

However, as you incrementally add airspeed to this example, you now have reserve energy for the elevator to provide an increase in attitude prior to touchdown. When I first was checked out in my Husky, my instructor had me do power off three point landings. I had a very hard time with these at first because I was simply not caring enough speed to make the transition to the three point attitude before running out of elevator.

The difficulty with with low power or idle power three point landings is the timing that is required to get the attitude right just at touchdown. As airspeed bleeds off and the nose is rising, all the stars have to align properly for the attitude to match as elevator is running out. Some pilots can do this more easily than others. The game changer is when you allow power to help you buy back more time and margin for error. Power simply helps to energize your elevator and reduce the importance for perfect timing.

Now for the idea.

Sit in your plane on the ground and memorize your sight picture in the three point attitude. Take off and fly up at altitude in the landing configuration with enough power to fly in that three point attitude while maintaining your altitude. Now, practice on a long runway flying down the runway a foot off the ground in the three point attitude with enough power to fly the length. Since you could land at any time down the runway in the three point attitude, this is the evidence that power has bought you the time and elevator effectiveness to make sure you achieve the three point attitude without the pressure of having to time it. Then experiment with a combination of approach speeds and power to be able to achieve the three point attitude at your touchdown spot more quickly.

Oh, one more comment. It is because of the factors involved to make that perfect three point landing that I forsook the desire altogether and just pick my landing spot, fly it to that spot at the desired speed, and then plant the mains to land. But when I must three point (someone (CFI, FAA) asks me to), I simply add enough power to achieve my three point attitude by energizing my elevator or I keep my speed up prior to the flare so that my elevators are effective enough at idle to get enough attitude.
 

mritter

Member
Gregg,
Great advice. I have been doing exactly what you describe in my three point attempts...power off, ragged edge speed, minimal energy. I thought this would be best for short field performance.
As I said, I really like that tail low wheel landing and can honestly put the plane wherever I want to and in plenty short distance. I’d just like to be able to do the same as consistently with the three pointer.
Thanks again for the lengthy write-up.
 
Last edited:

mritter

Member
I think it will also depend on which plane you have. We have 3 Huskies on our field and they all seem to land different. I have an A1 and it has no problem landing in 3 point or even tail first. The other one is a 200hp and lands pretty similar to mine, but perhaps a bit faster. The 3rd is also a 200hp plane and looses elevator authority during the flare unless he has a large weight in the tail baggage area.
Thanks Thomas...this is the one and only Husky I’ve ever flown. Interesting the differences in the planes. I can understand the 200’s being a bit more nose heavy.
 

airplanebrad

Active Member
That's sick! What's your air speed as you come over the taxi way? Full flaps?
Trims fully aft. Whatever speed that gives you near power off I suppose. As I get near, bump in some power to start slowing a bit more. It’ll bring the nose up. I don’t look at the speed at that point because there’s no reason to. Just fly the airplane. It’s only going to roll 3-4 seconds and your stopped anyway. It’s a tail first hit, then on the brakes and tails back in the air. Sometimes I’ll blast a bit of power while still carefully on the brakes so it doesn’t slam the Tailwheel back down. Just fly the airplane. Practice, practice, practice. Don’t overthink it or read 10 different ways on a forum of how all the experts do it. Go practice what works for you. Above all be smart, careful and comfortable. Keep the nose down in the turns and for Jesus sake stayed coordinated! It’s hard on the paint otherwise!
 

rnorty

Member
Trims fully aft. Whatever speed that gives you near power off I suppose. As I get near, bump in some power to start slowing a bit more. It’ll bring the nose up. I don’t look at the speed at that point because there’s no reason to. Just fly the airplane. It’s only going to roll 3-4 seconds and your stopped anyway. It’s a tail first hit, then on the brakes and tails back in the air. Sometimes I’ll blast a bit of power while still carefully on the brakes so it doesn’t slam the Tailwheel back down. Just fly the airplane. Practice, practice, practice. Don’t overthink it or read 10 different ways on a forum of how all the experts do it. Go practice what works for you. Above all be smart, careful and comfortable. Keep the nose down in the turns and for Jesus sake stayed coordinated! It’s hard on the paint otherwise!
I'll give it a try - thank you! After looping your video a ton it seems like you start arresting the sink maybe 100ft off the ground? I'm just nervous I'll slam the tail hard.
 

airplanebrad

Active Member
I'll give it a try - thank you! After looping your video a ton it seems like you start arresting the sink maybe 100ft off the ground? I'm just nervous I'll slam the tail hard.
That’s right, depends on your approach. What’s the obstacles? Do your reconnaissance and Check for wires, towers, trees, sticks on touchdown, rocks, wind rotors, or you going into a bluff with a hole? If so be prepared to sink as you lose that wind or prepare for a shear. Put that into account on your energy management. If you have that into play your not going to sink to tear anything up. Keep a buffer. You may find yourself pushing down against the full aft trim sort final. And that’s okay. Push the carb heat back in to cold on short final and clear the throttle a few times incase you need it, you’ll know the powers readily available. Never know if a coyote, deer, dog, person or your engine is going to cough and make for a bad day.
 

johnaz

Active Member
I have an idea. And a few comments.

The comments are first.

Landing three point is simply about attitude at touchdown. And the tires that you have can significantly impact the three point attitude. 600-6 tires versus 35" bush wheels are totally different situations. If you have the trim rolled all the way aft and the stick is in your belly, why are you not able to achieve the three point attitude? Your elevator effectiveness has been limited. Let's get some elevator effectiveness back. Balance of the aircraft is important. Energizing the elevator with the engine by carrying power is also useful. And in the absence of power (engine out for instance), then you must arrive into the landing zone with enough airspeed to keep the elevator energized until touchdown. If in the power off situation it is impossible to keep the plane flying before you get to the three point, then your tires have set an unachievable outcome.

To further explore this idea of arriving with enough airspeed when attempting to land at idle power, imagine an extreme situation if you were to set up for a final approach with the power reduced at idle with the trim rolled aft and the plane leaf falling toward the landing zone. As you attempted your roundout, you will quickly realize that the stick is already fully aft and there is not enough energy to get the plane to the three point attitude or any increase in attitude for that matter.

However, as you incrementally add airspeed to this example, you now have reserve energy for the elevator to provide an increase in attitude prior to touchdown. When I first was checked out in my Husky, my instructor had me do power off three point landings. I had a very hard time with these at first because I was simply not caring enough speed to make the transition to the three point attitude before running out of elevator.

The difficulty with with low power or idle power three point landings is the timing that is required to get the attitude right just at touchdown. As airspeed bleeds off and the nose is rising, all the stars have to align properly for the attitude to match as elevator is running out. Some pilots can do this more easily than others. The game changer is when you allow power to help you buy back more time and margin for error. Power simply helps to energize your elevator and reduce the importance for perfect timing.

Now for the idea.

Sit in your plane on the ground and memorize your sight picture in the three point attitude. Take off and fly up at altitude in the landing configuration with enough power to fly in that three point attitude while maintaining your altitude. Now, practice on a long runway flying down the runway a foot off the ground in the three point attitude with enough power to fly the length. Since you could land at any time down the runway in the three point attitude, this is the evidence that power has bought you the time and elevator effectiveness to make sure you achieve the three point attitude without the pressure of having to time it. Then experiment with a combination of approach speeds and power to be able to achieve the three point attitude at your touchdown spot more quickly.

Oh, one more comment. It is because of the factors involved to make that perfect three point landing that I forsook the desire altogether and just pick my landing spot, fly it to that spot at the desired speed, and then plant the mains to land. But when I must three point (someone (CFI, FAA) asks me to), I simply add enough power to achieve my three point attitude by energizing my elevator or I keep my speed up prior to the flare so that my elevators are effective enough at idle to get enough attitude.
Gregg,
That is the best training, down the runway, just off but do not land, get used to what it takes to hover at slowest speed and maintain. Once you can do that all is easy. Seat of the pants feel, do not need to look at airspeed.
The 200Hp Husky's will simply not land or fly as slow as lighter ones. Too nose heavy, takes more power in them to keep flying and nose up.
John
 
Top