G3X Touch Retrofit?

[jliltd]

Has anybody installed the STC'd PMA'd Garmin G3X Touch in their Husky? I fly one in my RV-8 and have installed a couple of the Garmin CAN Bus systems.

I have a 2006 A-1B-200 and it came with the standard VFR / Garmin 396 shock mounted sub-panel with an AI. The panel is the legacy shorter version.

Today I was working on my Husky and removed the flight instrument sub-panel and it struck me that the hole it left is about the size of a Garmin GDU 460 10.6" touch display EFIS. So I printed out a template from CAD and cut it out and checked it against the panel. I also took measurements. I even took the GDU 460 from my RV-8 and held it up against the panel hole. Here is a photo of a side by side comparison of the GDU with the shock sub-panel:

I took some more precise measurements and determined the vacated panel hole was almost exactly the specified dimension while the vertical measurement was a bit short. I measured clearances from the bus bar items on the bottom and the glareshield top mount nutplates. It turns out with about 0.20" trimmed out of the top and bottom of the vacated cut out the GDU 460 can slip in with about 1/8" of clearance top and bottom. Here is a comparison:

Here is an overlay of a template in the aircraft. I need to make a template out of plastic as the paper is too floppy but this is just a first cut.

The top of the glareshield where it meets the panel has a finish combing / piping that would have to either be trimmed or removed. See next photo of this running along the top of the panel.

I am in the process of doing some other items on the aircraft and am glad I hadn't discovered this G3X compatibility when I did. If it had been a month earlier I would be too tempted to pull the trigger. I am very familiar with G3X installs and CAN Bus wiring between LRU's so it would go pretty quick. I don't have time to do an install now. So maybe come Fall or Winter.

Jim

 

[Ak Kurt]

Come on Jim, do it!

Do it!

This is what I would love to install in my tall panel airplane down the road. I have been wondering how close the dimensions are between the 6 pack sub panel and the G3X touch. This looks like a natural fit to me .

I flew the new Carbon Cub 3 with the G3X Touch and G500 auto pilot, gotta say, that is an incredible set up! I have the MVP-50 engine gauge so I would need engine instruments on the G3X Touch, that would probably ease install I would imagine. I sure hope you or someone does this instal, I would love to see it and hear about it.

Kurt

 

[belloypilot]

You’d still need altimeter and ASI steam gauges, correct? Maybe TC too? I have the same panel and would love to put that system in.

 

[jliltd]

You’d still need altimeter and ASI steam gauges, correct? Maybe TC too? I have the same panel and would love to put that system in.

With respect to your question concerning still needing steam gauge ASI, Alt et al, no. The G3X covers all that as primary replacement under the STC. There may be additional requirements for an IFR installation. I have G3X Touch install manual for experimentals which isn't bogged down with type certificated approval requirements. I only have the ICAs and maintenance manual for the certified install. Sometimes STC'd installation instructions for primary gauge won't allow original backups. Sometimes they do allow. I will get a copy of the STC"d install manual tomorrow.

Since I already have a CGR-30P engine instrument I won't need the GEA 24 engine LRU. All I need is the bare minimums consisting of the GDU 460 with install kit, a GMU 11 PMA'd remote magnetometer, a GSU 25B PMA'd AHRS, a GARMIN GTP 59 OAT sensor. The only option I would add would be a GAD 27 to keep the system from rebooting in case of a low voltage event and also condition the power during engine start. I already have a GDL 52 ADS-B reciever with Sirius/XM and that works flawlessly with G3X (and any aera portable or iPad). If you look closely at the full cockpit photo you can see the GDL 52 mounted on a small shelf between the firewall and radio box that allows me easy access to release it and swap it into different aircraft.

Probably the most sensible thing to do for a full G3X Touch installation would to cut a whole new panel. But I see a single stand alone GDU 460 display with an almost perfect panel cut out and in place a pretty neat deal.

Jim

 

[joemcd]

I think it would be a great project and likely there will be many that follow you. It seems like it should work out very well. I also like the position of your GDL 52. How did you attach and support the shelf? I have mine on the glareshield but I like your solution better.

Joe

 

[FW Dave]

Man I see a wicked cool project developing here Im tuned in..

on the VFR panel with the 796's, It also looks to me like the 7 inch G3X Touch would fit perfectly.. couple that with a 375 navigator, in place of the 345, and one could have a nice VNAV system.. I have a G5 in place of the original horizon too.

A system that could drive a 500/autopilot if Garmin ever does the certification on the husky.

 

[Ak Kurt]

Jim, I would be very surprised if the data from the GDL 52 would be allowed to be used with the certified G3X Touch. I would love to be able to send the data to my GTN 750 but no dice, must go to iPad, 796 or 660. Since I have the MVP-50 engine unit I do not need engine info on the G3X display. I have not been able to find a picture what the display looks like without the engine info displayed. Is it just a black blank vertical stripe? Is the PFD display bigger? Does anyone have a picture they could post?

Thanks for posting all of this cool stuff Jim, much appreciated, you are gonna cost us all a lot of money!

Thanks

Kurt

 

[jliltd]

Jim, I would be very surprised if the data from the GDL 52 would be allowed to be used with the certified G3X Touch. I would love to be able to send the data to my GTN 750 but no dice, must go to iPad, 796 or 660. Since I have the MVP-50 engine unit I do not need engine info on the G3X display. I have not been able to find a picture what the display looks like without the engine info displayed. Is it just a black blank vertical stripe? Is the PFD display bigger? Does anyone have a picture they could post?

Thanks for posting all of this cool stuff Jim, much appreciated, you are gonna cost us all a lot of money!

Thanks

Kurt

Kurt.

The GDL 52 can be used with the G3X Touch. That's a huge benefit. Here is the language from Garmin's Certified G3X press release:
"Pilots can receive and display the benefits ADS-B In via the new GNX 375, GTX 345 or the GDL 50R/52R. ADS-B-enabled features such as patented TargetTrend and TerminalTraffic are also available with these products." There is no functional difference between the GDL 52 and 52R just a difference in housing and connectors.

As for your GTN 750 it cannot get ADS-B in from a GDL 5x device but when the GDL sends it to the big screen G3X I doubt you will miss it on the GTN. If you do want ADS-B on both your G3X and GTN 750 then you would want the GNX 375, GTX 345 or a separate GDL-88 (750 only, not G3X). Big bucks to cover both the G3X and GTN. One novel solution would be to keep your Mode C transponder and install a GDL-88 for ADS-B out with in on the 750 and then put in a GDL-52 to interface to the G3X and combine it all with an anonymous switch while having a belly full of transponder type antennas .

Jim

 

[Ak Kurt]

Oh wow! That is great news! Now I think you really really should install the G3X Touch in your Husky so you can let us know all about the install and performance!

I have the GTN 750 and the 345 in and out xpndr now. I just wanted to be able to display SXM weather on the 750 now until I install a G3X Touch. I have a new in the box GDL52 and am probably going to get a 660 for SXM display but I have to figure out where to put it in an already crowded high panel. I dont want anything sticking up above the top of the high panel.

By the way, have you seen the G3X Touch display or a picture of one without the engine data? Curious how that looks, I cant find a picture of that.

I would really like to see or hear of anyone installing the Garmin 500 auto pilot. I wonder how much the whole system including servos weigh. I flew the Carbon Cub 3 with the 500 auto pilot, it was impressive! At times being able to engage the auto pilot on a long straight and level cross country would be nice.

Kurt

 

[jliltd]

Oh wow! That is great news! Now I think you really really should install the G3X Touch in your Husky so you can let us know all about the install and performance!

I have the GTN 750 and the 345 in and out xpndr now. I just wanted to be able to display SXM weather on the 750 now until I install a G3X Touch. I have a new in the box GDL52 and am probably going to get a 660 for SXM display but I have to figure out where to put it in an already crowded high panel. I dont want anything sticking up above the top of the high panel.

By the way, have you seen the G3X Touch display or a picture of one without the engine data? Curious how that looks, I cant find a picture of that.

I would really like to see or hear of anyone installing the Garmin 500 auto pilot. I wonder how much the whole system including servos weigh. I flew the Carbon Cub 3 with the 500 auto pilot, it was impressive! At times being able to engage the auto pilot on a long straight and level cross country would be nice.

Kurt

Kurt.

You already have everything you need for ADS-B in and out that shows on both the GTN and the G3X. Lucky you. You have that fully covered. If you want to add SXM weather & music all you would need is a GDL-51 to tie into the G3X and woola!

What you flew in the Carbon Cub was the GMC 507 or 307 autopilot controller talking to GSA 28 servos. Not the G500 which a certified autopilot system and the one we are still waiting on for an STC for the Husky. When that becomes available your aircraft will have an automated flight control system on par with the best state of the art out there.

I fly the G3X Touch system regularly in an RV-8 and Javron Cub with the integrated engine information system (via the GEA 24 interface module). It works fantastic. If you already have an MVP-50, EDM 900 or CGR-30P it wouldn't be worth changing over to a Garmin engine monitor option. But if you have analog or stand-alone electronic engine gauges (and ESPECIALLY an orphaned VM1000 EIS) the Garmin G3X Engine option would be the definite way to go.

Jim

 

[jliltd]

......I also like the position of your GDL 52. How did you attach and support the shelf?

Joe,

Your question is going to produce a little thread drift here. I originally mounted a GDL-39 3D there and later changed out to a GDL 52 to get SXM weather and traffic. So my "shelf" is oval shaped for the GDL-39 and I re-used it for the 52 making it look a bit wonky. But it is still stable and works great. Keep that in mind.

The forward edge of the shelf against the firewall is secured by two adel clamps on the diagongal x-brace tubes. The shelf has an angle riveted to it and the angle is bolted to the adels. For the aft end I used a piece of angle that supports the shelf off my transponder / radio box tray. I little hodge podge but I didn't think I would have to show it to anybody (wink). The shelf floor has an angle stiffener on the bottom for stiffness. This is very solid.

You will notice I don't have a GPS antenna hooked up to the GDL because it gets it's position source from the aera 600 (Garmin portables and G3X are great about sharing data so only one needs to be hooked to an antenna).

Now back to the G3X Touch install investigation thread.....

Jim

 

[jkalus]

I think you are correct that the G3X can serve as primary airspeed and alt, but as an electronic instrument it requires a backup, so you would need a G5 or similar also installed. If you have the JPI or EI engine instrument, I personally would go with the 7” portrait G3X, because of panel space and weight.

I say this because the unit is so close to you in the cockpit. The G5000 which is about an arms length away has a display that is 12” wide by 7.5” tall. It has about a 9” diagonal PFD viewing area. On a G5000 the map display on the MFD, which is even further away, is only about 5” high. So if you weren’t in need of displaying your engine instruments, I don’t think you would experience any loss of resolution and weight saving is key in the Husky. I don’t see a need to see what is to my 9 or 3 o’clock on a map. 12 o’clock seems more important. The FAA also required Aviat to use a heavier gage aluminum on the instrument panel when the TXi is installed.

 

[jliltd]

I think you are correct that the G3X can serve as primary airspeed and alt, but as an electronic instrument it requires a backup, so you would need a G5 or similar also installed. If you have the JPI or EI engine instrument, I personally would go with the 7” portrait G3X, because of panel space and weight.

The main problem with, and feedback from users about the 7" G3X screen is the overwhelming proportion of bezel surround verses the screen real estate. Look at it and you will see the large picture frame bezel taking up much valuable space. It has it's place but if a panel can accept a 10.6" screen it is much better in person. As mentioned I fly a RV-8 and a Javron with the 10" panel and it doesn't seem to big at all. It's a personal preference. Here is the 7" G3X Touch. It maintains the same bezel size as the larger 10.6" display with less glass:

No backup flight instruments required for a VFR G3X Touch system installation. VFR only needs a standard non-corrected compass. Curious that even if the new install has a slaved GMU 11 magnetometer. An IFR system installation does require a backup AI (legacy vacuum, Sandia Quattro, Mid Contienet SAM etc...), airspeed and altimeter. Or a single G5 will cover all this by itself so for IFR a G5 is a shoo in. IFR also requires an external navigator (Garmin GPS or legacy NavCom with it's own CDI). Here is the skinny:

 

[belloypilot]

Would a single G5 cover all the standby requirements for IFR, or only the AI?

Interesting they call out fuel quantity indicators if the EIS is the primary engine instrument. One would assume that wouldn’t apply to the Husky - I hope.

I’m really liking this option.

 

[airplanebrad]

I asked people’s opinions on this last year and everyone said no way, not legal etc. I knew it would get approved. I ended up doing the 796 panel with mvp50 and garmin g5. Would have much rather did G3X. Maybe in the next one I will!

 

[jkalus]

It seems the regs are changing for the better. This is great news.

There is also an AFM MEL. This is from the A-1A


Note it says that position lights are not required on the Type Certificate, though required by FAR at night.

FAR 23.1300 seems to be top secret. I can’t find anything more recent than 2011 anywhere.

 

[jliltd]

Would a single G5 cover all the standby requirements for IFR, or only the AI?

Interesting they call out fuel quantity indicators if the EIS is the primary engine instrument. One would assume that wouldn’t apply to the Husky - I hope.

I’m really liking this option.

A single G5 ATT version (attitude indicator EFIS) DOES cover all the standby instruments for IFR flight so no AI or vacuum system needed. No backup needed for VFR but with the simplicity of power, ground, pitot, static and CAN bus wiring why wouldn't one add a G5? One of the nice things about having a G5 as backup is it gives the pilot a dedicated Barometer knob (Kohlsman setting) that slaves to the G3X. So no special fiddling to set altimeter. And the G5 will step in and feed attitude and air data to feed the G3X should it's GSU ADAHARS unit fail. True instant backup system without interaction by the pilot.

 

[jkalus]

A single G5 ATT version (attitude indicator EFIS) DOES cover all the standby instruments for IFR flight so no AI or vacuum system needed. No backup needed for VFR but with the simplicity of power, ground, pitot, static and CAN bus wiring why wouldn't one add a G5? One of the nice things about having a G5 as backup is it gives the pilot a dedicated Barometer knob (Kohlsman setting) that slaves to the G3X. So no special fiddling to set altimeter. And the G5 will step in and feed attitude and air data to feed the G3X should it's GSU ADAHARS unit fail. True instant backup system without interaction by the pilot.

And if you are VFR, the G3X can be full screen map or chart while the G5 serves as the primary flight instrument.

 

[jkalus]

Does anyone have the install manual for the certified G3x? It looks like it’s not on the website for the certified installation.

 

[Ak Kurt]

Any updates on this project?

Kurt