New Husky

[MTV]

Mike,
What would one expect on the fuel injection vs carb on nice ported and polished/flowed carb engine?
I am debating whether to try the IO-390 version, or build an experimental Husky with all the right stuff, and light.
Not sure what engine to use other than hot rodded carb 0360 for experimental Husky. One can get around 220HP pretty easily. And it stays light.
But the IO -390 is probably more torque stock.
What do you think?
John

John,
I think you can do about the same with FI. The difference may be that you have much more balanced fuel flows to each cylinder. That permits more power with tighter leaning, due to even EGTs.

I just don't see any way to make a heavy, and forward CG airplane a nice flying airplane. Some folks forget that the real challenge is landing distance. You can build an airplane that'll take off in 50 feet, but if you can't land it in less than 700 feet, what have you accomplished?

I like light airplanes. That first A-1B Husky was always my favorite, under 1300 lbs equipped ready to work. A real blaster up front is fun, but you still have to land it.....

Mike

 

[Ak Kurt]

John,

I think if there was a way to get a injected B1B that has been built up in a light airplane that would be the hot set up! This engine in your light Husky would be incredible. Then get a newer A1-C for putting around in.

Kurt

 

[MTV]

I'd bet you could get close to 200 hp out of an O-360 B1B. With a ~ 1250 or so airplane, that'd be a rocket.

MTV

 

[johnaz]

I'd bet you could get close to 200 hp out of an O-360 B1B. With a ~ 1250 or so airplane, that'd be a rocket.

MTV

Pretty hard to get to 1250 lbs on 0-360 Husky with bigger tires, extended gear. Could maybe do it with stock gear and 8.50's and some lightweight mods. Realistically 1300lb with all the right stuff.
We had 0-360 dyno to 215+hp, but is that real HP or just dyno to make one feel good?
John

 

[MTV]

Pretty hard to get to 1250 lbs on 0-360 Husky with bigger tires, extended gear. Could maybe do it with stock gear and 8.50's and some lightweight mods. Realistically 1300lb with all the right stuff.
We had 0-360 dyno to 215+hp, but is that real HP or just dyno to make one feel good?
John

John,
Yeah, I know it's tough to get these airplanes that light. Too many things most of us aren't willing to give up, like an electrical system.....

But, even a 1300 pound airplane, putting out 200ish horsepower with the right prop is going to be a rocket.

As I noted before, to me the real challenge is being able to land short. And, that is best done with an aft CG. So, a 1400 + airplane with a far forward CG......not the best platform. I noted in an earlier post that the only props that are approved on the 200 hp Husky at least initially, were composite props. That wasn't the "normal" choice between metal props and composite....the point was the weight of a metal prop would put that airplane outside the forward CG limit. That gives you an idea of how far forward the CG is on these airplanes.

Me, I also prefer really light, 160 hp Cubs as well.

MTV

 

[johnaz]

John,
Yeah, I know it's tough to get these airplanes that light. Too many things most of us aren't willing to give up, like an electrical system.....

But, even a 1300 pound airplane, putting out 200ish horsepower with the right prop is going to be a rocket.

As I noted before, to me the real challenge is being able to land short. And, that is best done with an aft CG. So, a 1400 + airplane with a far forward CG......not the best platform. I noted in an earlier post that the only props that are approved on the 200 hp Husky at least initially, were composite props. That wasn't the "normal" choice between metal props and composite....the point was the weight of a metal prop would put that airplane outside the forward CG limit. That gives you an idea of how far forward the CG is on these airplanes.

Me, I also prefer really light, 160 hp Cubs as well.

MTV

 

[johnaz]

Mike,
Like this one of mine in AK. Keller/Airframes flaps. Starr flying it with his son, my grandson Anderson in back.
John

 

[MTV]

Mike,
Like this one of mine in AK. Keller/Airframes flaps. Starr flying it with his son, my grandson Anderson in back.
John

I watched an Airframes Alaska video tour of their new facility in Palmer last night. They are working on Titanium landing gear. They claimed that it'll be 11 pounds lighter than standard Cub gear. I find that hard to believe, but.....

They're also working on aluminum struts for lighter weight on Cubs.

He also said they're "working with Aviat on some stuff".

MTV

 

[DuntoDawg]

I had a chance to do a very quick flight today in N413DC, with the IO390. Temperature was 93, taking off of a dirt strip at 1600 feet elevation density altitude was 4150. It does have the Hartzell Trailblazer prop and had about 1/2 fuel. I took off and climbed to 3500 feet and did slow flight clean and the stall warning horn came on at 55 and the aerodynamic stall occurred at 50 with a smooth break. I then selected flaps to 30 and the horn came on at 45 and the stall break smooth with slight roll to the left at 40. I found the new throttle quadrant very east to use and it felt natural. Engine temperatures stayed low, I did select the cowl flaps to open out of habit although when I landed the owner said it stayed cool with the closed. The engine start was simple on the hot start--I have a 2011 A1C200 and hot starts can be temperamental and I feel each one is a little different. The landings were great and I only did three--two wheel landings and a three point and visibility over the nose was great. The aircraft is on 31's with a standard size tailwheel not the ABBW. I use a seat cushion in my A1C200 which is on 31's with the ABBW. I liked the new style trim and found it a very easy transition from my plane. I felt the power difference on takeoff and climb and in cruise it well out accelerated the 2016 A1C that I was in the back seat of giving a flight review. I hope to fly it again soon and give more details!

 

[Ak Kurt]

Thanks for the report!

Kurt

 

[johnaz]

I had a chance to do a very quick flight today in N413DC, with the IO390. Temperature was 93, taking off of a dirt strip at 1600 feet elevation density altitude was 4150. It does have the Hartzell Trailblazer prop and had about 1/2 fuel. I took off and climbed to 3500 feet and did slow flight clean and the stall warning horn came on at 55 and the aerodynamic stall occurred at 50 with a smooth break. I then selected flaps to 30 and the horn came on at 45 and the stall break smooth with slight roll to the left at 40. I found the new throttle quadrant very east to use and it felt natural. Engine temperatures stayed low, I did select the cowl flaps to open out of habit although when I landed the owner said it stayed cool with the closed. The engine start was simple on the hot start--I have a 2011 A1C200 and hot starts can be temperamental and I feel each one is a little different. The landings were great and I only did three--two wheel landings and a three point and visibility over the nose was great. The aircraft is on 31's with a standard size tailwheel not the ABBW. I use a seat cushion in my A1C200 which is on 31's with the ABBW. I liked the new style trim and found it a very easy transition from my plane. I felt the power difference on takeoff and climb and in cruise it well out accelerated the 2016 A1C that I was in the back seat of giving a flight review. I hope to fly it again soon and give more details!

DuntoDawg,
How did you think it compares to the Husky you have? My old one I sold to Dave and you bought?
Cruise difference in speed? Much difference in takeoff roll?
I hope to fly it next week.
Just wanted your input on speed, and performance.
Thanks,
John

 

[DuntoDawg]

It performs far better than mine--don't get me wrong I love 68WY but it is slow! The trailblazer prop made a big difference in takeoff roll and climb performance which is excellent but my cruise speed is slower than other 200HP A1C's that I fly. The other one I spend a lot of time in is a 2015 A1C-200 with the metal hartzell and 29"ABW's. It will cruise at 125 mph indicated at 25/25. Mine at that power setting indicates 100 mph but I think the pitot static is off because I can fly formation with the other up until about 115.
The new one, felt great on takeoff and I only flew a 0.3 as I met the owner at Motown and asked about the plane and he tossed me the keys and I went for it. I didn't leave the pattern in it but flew formation with it as we left and I was in the above 200 HP and we were at 125 and the new one pulled out in front pretty quick so I think it will fly at 130 on those tires. The other thing that was interesting was at full power prior to leaning the fuel flow was under 13 GPH, whereas my plane show about 15.8 GPH. I'm going to find some time to go down to Pegasus in the next week to do a longer flight for a better analysis.
As an aside, et me know when your package from Germany arrives, I should have two packs of the washers and bolts that he enclosed with your shipment. I can fly up to sky ranch and pick them up at your convenience and we can talk Huskies!
Dave

 

[MTV]

Full power prior to leaning it was running 13 gph?? Something wrong with that.....

MTV

 

[johnaz]

It performs far better than mine--don't get me wrong I love 68WY but it is slow! The trailblazer prop made a big difference in takeoff roll and climb performance which is excellent but my cruise speed is slower than other 200HP A1C's that I fly. The other one I spend a lot of time in is a 2015 A1C-200 with the metal hartzell and 29"ABW's. It will cruise at 125 mph indicated at 25/25. Mine at that power setting indicates 100 mph but I think the pitot static is off because I can fly formation with the other up until about 115.
The new one, felt great on takeoff and I only flew a 0.3 as I met the owner at Motown and asked about the plane and he tossed me the keys and I went for it. I didn't leave the pattern in it but flew formation with it as we left and I was in the above 200 HP and we were at 125 and the new one pulled out in front pretty quick so I think it will fly at 130 on those tires. The other thing that was interesting was at full power prior to leaning the fuel flow was under 13 GPH, whereas my plane show about 15.8 GPH. I'm going to find some time to go down to Pegasus in the next week to do a longer flight for a better analysis.
As an aside, et me know when your package from Germany arrives, I should have two packs of the washers and bolts that he enclosed with your shipment. I can fly up to sky ranch and pick them up at your convenience and we can talk Huskies!
Dave

Thanks Dave,
Will do on pkg from Germany. Look forward to your further input on the IO-390.
68WY is slower because of the Floats AK extended, uncovered gear. larger diameter tubes and no cover makes it slow.
We covered cub gear and got 5 mph.
John

 

[DuntoDawg]

I'll check out that fuel flow on my next flight. I'll also take a picture of the weight and balance to get some hard numbers on that--any other questions?

 

[Ak Kurt]

What altitude was the airport you were taking off from when you registered those fuel flows? Sea Level fuel flow for a 200hp should be around 19-20GPH.

Kurt

 

[Larson]

I think Mike has some important points.. whilst light weight is key to performance, forward CG degrades performance too!
So when we move the batteries forward and lighten the aft fuselage (tailwheel and assy’s, seats, floorboards, etc) we move CG forward.
Installing a heavier (more powerful) engine and accessories, we get a forward CG too..

Does anyone know if there is a STC provider of lightweight starter ring gear?

 

[Meadowlark]

DuntoDawg..... I usually don't know what I am talking about...... but...... you have serious problems with your Husky. One place I would look is your wing washout...... If set incorrectly, it will be a....... Dawg..... My leaned out cruise is much more 6.5 to 7 gph. My cruise speed is more like 125 - 130 mph......... So....... I have a 2007 A1B 180 (+) hp

Lars, do you have a machine shop nearby?

J/C GTF & P48

 

[DuntoDawg]

Meadowlark,
How do I go about checking wing washout?

 

[belloypilot]

DuntoDawg..... I usually don't know what I am talking about...... but...... you have serious problems with your Husky. One place I would look is your wing washout...... If set incorrectly, it will be a....... Dawg..... My leaned out cruise is much more 6.5 to 7 gph. My cruise speed is more like 125 - 130 mph......... So....... I have a 2007 A1B 180 (+) hp

Lars, do you have a machine shop nearby?

J/C GTF & P48

JC, are you saying you can get 125 - 130 mph TAS on 7 gph? If so, that thing is rocket compared to mine. I just did a whole battery of performance and slow flight trials and was able to consistently get 130-135 mph TAS at 4500’ on 8.50 tires, but using 24”, 2500 RPM, and almost 11 gph. I thought I was doing pretty well - until now .